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Unlocking Multi-Species Fishing in Wisconsin’s Lakes with Caleb Wistad | The Omnia Report

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Join us for an exciting episode where Caleb Wistad from Wisconsin shares his expertise on fishing in the diverse lakes of Wisconsin. Caleb discusses a range of species, focusing primarily on bass but also covering catfish, steelhead, walleye, panfish, and more. He highlights various techniques and seasonal strategies, the importance of water temperatures, and the value of using tools like Omnia Fishing's PRO subscription for pre-scouting lakes. We also dive into the benefits of mapping technologies, such as Navionics and bottom hardness layers, and discuss how these tools assist in locating prime fishing spots. Whether you're a seasoned angler or new to multi-species fishing, this episode is packed with valuable insights and practical tips.

    (upbeat music) - Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Omnia Report. I'm Ricky Harris here with Omniafishing and today I'm really excited to have a conversation with Kale Weestad from Wisconsin. We're gonna be talking a little bit about some different species. He always kind of focused on bass for the most part with this series, but I'm really excited to kind of break down some of these lakes in Wisconsin and talk about just the diverse fisheries that you guys have. So before we get started Kale, I just wanted to give you a second kind of introduce yourself and let the audience know what you've got going on and kind of what makes you, you know, an authority on some of these things here in Wisconsin. - Sure, yeah. I mean, I've been fishing Northern Wisconsin, Great Lakes and the Mississippi River and all the inland lakes within a hundred, 200 miles of my house since I was two years old. So I'm really familiar with Wisconsin in general and I've been sort of building a YouTube channel here for about five years and just recently went full time with that. So I'm full time creating content for that channel now. And it's all fishing content, primarily educational, a lot of regional stuff, but a lot of stuff that will apply just about anywhere in the Midwest as well. Minnesota, Michigan, Canada, you know, it's that kind of multi-species content that you're talking about. And I fish for everything from catfish to steelhead to walleyes to bluegills. I mean, everything in between. So you name it. - Yeah, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? I'm really looking forward to this. And we'll kind of get started here. So just let everyone know, this is kind of your home area here. We're looking at really, you know, I consider it Northwestern Wisconsin. - Yep. - Looking at, looking at all these lakes here and one of the cool things to really call out here first is, you know, any audience will notice there's a lot of purple lake pins here as well as orange. And what that signifies is we actually have the Department of Natural Resources survey data for not only Minnesota, but Wisconsin now as well. So you'll see some of these here along the line even into Minnesota, we'll have these pins too. And one of the really cool things I wanted just to show everyone. So, you know, you're looking at kind of a vast area like this and, you know, especially this part of the country, like you've got to mention, you know, there's such a wealth of different species of fish from walleye to pike to perch to, you know, bass, largemouth and smallmouth both. But, excuse me, really, when you want to break it down here more specifically, you can go to, we'll just say walleye, for instance. And you can actually see how these lake pins have changed here. So now we're just looking at lakes that have longer potential for walleye. And what that means when we say one-curp potential is that the Department of Natural Resources, the wildlife, the fishing game department, whatever, you know, it's called their respective states is, we have the electrofishing and net fishing survey data. And what we consider a longer potential is whatever the state classifies as a trophy size fish. So, you know, with smallmouth, it may be 20 inches. I'm not exactly sure what the threshold is here on the walleye and pike. But that's what that signifies with those purple pins. So if you're wanting to walleye fish and you want to, you know, kind of try to maximize your chances as best you can, you know, look for some of these purple lake pins that will show up there. You just zoom in a little bit closer. You can see a couple right here. And you can do the same thing with the pike to, you know, break it down. And you can see some of these pins have already, already changed here as well. So, but what I want to do to start now is just to look at, look at all these species of reports. So, you know, kind of starting here from around where you're at Caleb, I just want to look through here just kind of your thoughts on what's being, you know, reported for some of these different things. And if there's, you know, when we're going out this time of your Caleb, then, you know, it's kind of the dog days of summer that we're getting into now, is there a, you know, is there a particular species that you'd like to target this time of year? Or, you know, is there one that you feel like is more active or is biting better? You know, just looking down through some of these reports, you know, we've got a different amount of reports from different species. You know, as you can see here, let me go back up to the top and I'll select some of these other species. No, we've got large mouth reports, we've got small mouth reports, you know, crappy, pretty much everything. So kind of what, what's your thought process on that Caleb? And is it, you know, does it have to do with the day-to-day conditions or is there just, you know, one species here? You'll feel like it's biting the vest this time of year. Well, it really comes down to what you want to do in a day and what you want to, what you want to fish for, how you want to target them. You know, late summer can be good for just about any species. However, if you're limited on electronics and you like fishing shallow, definitely it limits what you can target because a lot of fish do move deeper in the summertime. So, you know, if you like to walleye fish and you don't have a lot of experience with electronics and you don't like fishing deep, then you may want to fish for something else because most of the walleyes are deep right now. Now, if you want to go chuck, you know, frogs for bass up shallow, it's a great time to do that, fish some slop. A lot of times as the crappies and stuff will be on the weed lines all summer. And in some lakes, there'll be a walleyes around the weed lines as well. You know, and late summer is a great time if you do have electronics and you're familiar with them to go find walleyes and offshore structure on those deeper humps and reefs. And that's a good time, completely different fishing than flop fishing for bass, but they're both happening at the same time. And then, you know, there's just so much in between too. You've got a lot of different panfish options spread out from, you know, suspended in deep water towards late summer to weed bites happening still. So there's tons of opportunities in late summer. And the nice thing about late summer is most fish are feeding pretty heavily and they're pretty active. So a lot of times they're fairly easy to catch in the late summer period. So, but yeah, I guess it just depends on what you want to do that day. You know, some days I'll load my boat with my finesse spinning tackle and go chase while I was in open water and just, you know, target fish. And then other days I'm loading up my heavy bass tackle and flipping and throwing frogs up in two feet of water. So just depends on what you want to do. - Yeah, that's really cool. You know how much diversity there is up there. And, you know, looking at some of these lakes, I was just kind of looking over at the, you know, the water temperature. And, you know, doesn't really seem like, you know, that's kind of the thing that, you know, it seems to keep in mind is, you know, up in the north, especially, you know, looking at Wisconsin or Minnesota, you know, any of these northern places, Michigan too, for that matter. You know, the water temperatures really don't get, you know, super, super hot in the summertime. You know, what would you, you know, say, you know, some of the hottest temperatures you see, you know, I'm looking at some of these right here and it's ranging anywhere from the upper 60s to low 70s for the most part. You know, where I'm at, you know, if you're down south in Kentucky, you know, we're seeing water temperatures in the low 80s, you know, in places like that is typically ever getting that hot. And I guess it's kind of a two-fork question here too, is, you know, a lot of these natural lakes and things to the best my knowledge, there's not a ton of deep, deep water, you know, I consider more than, you know, 60, 70 feet in a lot of cases. So, you know, is the water temperature really ever getting too hot in your opinion up there to target really any of these species that you want to? And, you know, how deep is the deepest that you feel like some of these fish gear, which I know, you know, some of these lakes, they don't have a tremendous amount of depth to go to, you know, is that kind of or some of the adaptation and things like that come into play or? - Yeah. There is a huge variety of lakes up here. I mean, we have some lakes that are pushing over 120 feet, deep that have cold water fish like siskels and white fish in them. And we've got, you know, lakes that have fish that bottom out at like 12 feet, you know, that basically are completely different fisheries. So, those smaller shallower basins, fisheries with lots of weeds in them are the ones that you have to watch the water temps a little bit more. And they do get into the 80s at times. If we get a long stretch with no wind and hot weather, they will get that warm, but very temporarily typically. Even the big lakes can get pretty warm on the surface in the summertime if you don't have a lot of wind stirring them up. But if you get a big wind, it doesn't really matter how hot the temps are out. It'll stir them up enough that they're not going to get super hot. But the one fish that we really have to watch up here when it comes to too hot of water is muskies. 'Cause what happens is muskies will, they'll suspend an open water or, you know, deeper water. And they'll be 20, 30 feet down and that water's a lot cooler than the surface water. And when you fight a big fish up into that warm water, like you say, you get above, you know, 78 degree surface temps and you fight them in that warm water and keep them out of the water, that movement from the cold water into the warm water can be really detrimental to those fish. And typically muskies are going to be released. And so a lot of muskies recommend not fishing muskies once that temps gets up, pushing towards 80 on the surface. Just wait a few days, let the wind stir things up and then you can get back at it. But if the wind's blowing, the other thing you have to take into consideration is the direction of the wind. Because on those deep lakes, what'll happen is the wind will push the warm water to one end of the lake and there'll be a cold water upwelling on the other side of the lake. So if you fish the upwind side, sometimes there's a 10 degree difference between that side and downwind side of the lake, which is using Omnia, you can see the lake, the temps, not a lot of these lakes, you can see the temperature distribution, but in real time, you also want to pull up the wind maps because that'll tell you which way that warm water is getting pushed on that lake. So if you pull up the wind layer, you can see where that warm water is going to end up versus where that cold water is going to pop up on the upwind side. - Okay. And you know, same as those for spring. - I've got that wind layer pulled up right now. And yeah, looks like we've kind of got a, you know, it's blowing right up into the northern part of, you know, we're just looking at some of the lakes here just outside of Spooner, but you can actually look at the, you know, we have it up to a seven day forecast as well too, you know, so you can actually play this and see over time how that wind's going to blow and change not just the speed of it, but the direction as well. You know, so it's a great tool for planning, you know, if you're looking for kind of that scenario, you can go and look at the, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, if you're going out this weekend. And you know, it may be, it may be the West end of the lake that's experiencing that, you know, today on Tuesday, but then, you know, looking at the weekend, you know, it may be pushing that more Eastern or, you know, different things. That's a really good point to call out is that, you know, wind direction is a super valuable tool. They're even in the, you know, the summertime, I think, especially, you know, being able to see that because just a little bit of cold water, can you know, make a big difference and just looking here on this particular lake, the Chippewa Flow, which for instance, you know, some of those temperatures we're looking at there were, you know, upper or lower 70s here on this end and, you know, higher, upper 60s just on the other end. But you know, isn't a huge, huge light by any means, but, you know, still just being able to see that variance there, you know, I can imagine, you know, they can really make a huge difference. - It sure can, yeah, fish can really tell. I mean, one degree to a fish is like 10 degrees for us. So it definitely makes a big difference. And in the spring, everything reverses and you want to find the warm water. So you go to the downwind side of the lake and fish the windy side. And the nice thing about Omnia is, you know, you can kind of envision, you can look on the weather channel and see which direction the wind is going to be blowing. But to put that on a map and actually know, like, I want to fish that one day is the wind going to be blowing into it. It's hard for your mind to kind of figure out sometimes how that wind is actually going to go blowing into that bay. But when you can see it on the map like that, it's really, really helpful. And it just kind of helps it click where those fish are going to be at. - Yeah, just looking at round like here for example, you know, the further that you zoom in, you know, you can actually get really specific and see, you know, exactly what angle the these pins are hitting and that banks that can really give you, you know, use it down here in the South a lot to see where, you know, banks are going to be wind blown places you could potentially throw tough waters and things like that. In the early morning, late in the afternoon, just, you know, from even the navigational standpoint too, sometimes, you know, a lot of these bigger lakes, especially, you know, some of the great lakes in particular, you know, that wind direction and speed can make the difference in whether or not you should even be out there on the water period that day. So it's a big. - Yeah, I mean, we fish lakes superior all the time. And I was just checking for Thursday. We used an omnia last night to check the wind out there on Lake Superior because that's one place that you can't go on certain days if the wind is blown from the wrong direction. And you really got to watch it out there. So it's a very handy tool for that as well. 'Cause it kind of sets you up for, you know, which side of the lake you're going to put in on and what part you can go out of and stuff like that. You can see it real, real obviously. And the crazy thing about the great lakes is on one shoreline, the wind can be blown north and the other shoreline, it can be blown south and the weather forecast is hard to predict sometimes, but when you can see it in real time on the map, it's super helpful. - Yeah, that's really something to call out here. You can see it, you know, this particular section of life, you know, the winds blowing, you know, really kind of north, you know, western air, but then you get over here into going towards Duluth, you know, it's actually coming, you know, almost to the Southwest, you know, to race. And there's the really interesting to call out to. And especially on those big bodies of water like that, you know, that this little difference right here could make the difference in whether or not you can even fish that day, you know, so that's... - Absolutely, really, really cool. - So you mentioned Superior, that's something I really want to talk about too, Caleb, is, you know, is there certain conditions that you look for that say, man, I'm going to go up to Superior instead of, you know, going to some of these, you know, smaller lakes. It's, you know, I talk so much to the, you know, guys in Minnesota and Wisconsin and both of you, you guys have so, so many lakes. You know, it seems like it'd be really difficult for me to decide what you want to want to go to that weekend. But what, you know, what's the ideal scenario for you to be able to go up to Superior? Is there certain species that you really like to target in Superior? Is it just, you know, when the conditions are right, you can go up there and catch anything to you but you want to? - Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, there is so many options up here. That is the, sometimes the hardest decision to make all day is where you're going because there's so many options. But when it comes to Lake Superior, basically if I have a full day and I know I got all day to fish and the wind isn't too bad and the wind is, the wind is really the huge key there because number one, you have to have no very little wind the day you go. If you have a small boat like I do, you know, 18 foot boat. Number two, it can't have been windy out of the wrong direction the day before either because those swells are going to keep moving for about 24 hours. So if you had a big E swim the day before, those swells are still going to be really rough out there even if the wind is dead calm the next day. So you kind of have to watch those two things and if everything lines up and I have a full day to fish, I basically go to Lake Superior because those stars don't align that often. And when I can go, I go. And I really, my favorite thing to do there is probably vertical jig for lake trout but there's certain places you have to be able to get to to do that. And again, the wind, the weather has to be perfect. You have to have the right window of time. And that's when I go do that. But there's more options if you just want to troll for multi-species, you know, depending on the wind, you can kind of get on the north side of the lake, the south side of the lake or in the bay or the islands to kind of block the wind. So if you want to just troll, it's a little bit easier to get out there and do that. But that's basically it. When I have time and the weather lines up, I just forget everything else and run up there because there's such a special place to fish. - That's really cool. Yeah, it's funny you were talking about trolling and vertical jigging. Those are two of the three top techniques that you're recommended from the other real fishing reports that we, you know, get generated. So the other technique he calls out is spoons. Is that something that you're throwing quite a bit there? And, you know, for a guy like myself, you know, spoons are kind of subjective depending on what part of the country you go to. I mean, along the Tennessee River and things, it's, you know, flutter spoons or, you know, really big spoons like that. But, you know, you're throwing your cast in spoons a lot, jigging spoons, it's, you know, what kind of spoons specifically is it, you know, you-- - Well, it's all three. I mean, we, and when it comes to trout and salmon, they love spoons. So it doesn't matter if it's a jigging spoon or trolling spoon or casting spoon, I've caught trout and salmon on all three of those presentations and Lake Superior. Typically, if I'm bank fishing, fishing staging fish that are running up the rivers or fishing in the tributaries, I'm usually throwing a casting spoon. Obviously, trolling will troll them on just about anything. You can troll them on a flat line with lead core. You can troll them on a downrigger. You can troll them on a dipsy diver. Trolling spoons are super versatile. And then jigging spoons, you know, we use them ice fishing as well as an open water. When we want to target fish, you know, deep in a specific area, where we can get over the top of them. And spoon is a great option because it's fish is really heavy. And there's so much current in Lake Superior that something real heavy and that fish is heavy and doesn't have a big wide footprint that's going to get blown out of your sauna by that current is really important. So jigging spoons work pretty well in a lot of applications there when you're fishing those deeper fish. - Yeah, I'm looking here at some of the fish in reports too for Lake Superior. It's like you said, Dio, I mentioned the striking sexy sandwich and more traditional flutter spoon type bait. Then you've got the VMC rattlespoon too, which is kind of that more jigging spoon shape, which it's kind of special with the rattling everything. But it's super, super interesting to me that a spoon seems like one of the most versatile lures path art for any species of fish. - Yep. Yeah, I don't use spoons of Tana inland unless I'm fishing stream trout, you know, smaller streams for trout. But in the Great Lakes, we use them all the time. - You go back down here towards, you know, spinner in this area, some of these smaller lakes, you kind of look at some of the reports and you know, I'm amazed at just the difference of techniques and things that are, you know, guys are catching fish on, which we talked about earlier with just the water temperatures and things the way that they are. I feel like most species for the most part are, you know, fairly active, you know, that time of year. So it's, you know, kind of the perfect storm for, you know, especially anger that loves to fish for multi-species, you know, it's really, really super cool to see. Is there, you know, as far as any of these techniques, what would, you know, what would you say your favorite technique is to do this time of year, regardless of species, is there, you know, is there a way that you really, really love catching them? 'Cause it seems like there's, you know, everything that you could want to possibly do, you could find a lake within, you know, 60 mile radius here to go do that. - Yeah, I mean, for a multi-species technique for me, just about nothing beats a jig head in a paddletail swim bait. I mean, if you want to catch large mouth, small mouth, pike, walleyes, even big crappies, big perch, throw a two and a half inch crush city mayor on a 3/8 ounce jig head or, you know, something like that in the summertime that you can get down towards the bottom edge of those deeper weed lines and just slow crank that thing, slow roll it. Sometimes they'll even go up to like a half ounce jig on a three inch paddletail. Let it hit bottom and just start cranking it real slow and letting it swim across, you know, just above the bottom, maybe two, three feet off the bottom. And once in a while, let it crash back into the bottom, start your retrieve again. I mean, that will literally catch every single fish in the lake from muskies to pike to crappies to perch, to, I mean, you name it. It's really fun to fish that way. And when fish hit those baits, they absolutely crush them. I mean, there's no tap, tap or nibble nibble. It's like, wam. (laughs) They usually hit it to kill it. So super, super effective anywhere for anything, basically, honestly. And I use that presentation on lighter jigs early in the spring and then on heavier jigs as the summer progresses. And you can also vertical jig of swim bait, you know, over some of those deeper reefs as well for those walleyes and stuff. Get them to chase it up and you can watch them on your forward facing if you have forward facing. And it's a really effective bait for target fishing like that and sharpshooting as well. - Yeah. Yeah, so you mentioned forward facing, so no worry. I wanna get your perspective on that, you know, from kind of the, the MOLTH has species, you know, angler mindset is that, you know, do you see that becoming something that is, you know, you're utilizing for every species of fish that you're targeting from, you know, walleye to pike to musky or, you know, do you find that it kind of has its, you know, strengths and its, you know, not necessarily weaknesses, but, you know, just scenarios where you really don't utilize it, you know, there's a tremendous amount of grass up there and all it can be difficult that, you know, once fish actually get up into that grass and things, it's really hard to, you know, see them with that forward facing some of our, but you know, do you think that that's changed, you know, the way that you fish for some of these other species outside of it? You can be, we talk about it so much with bass and I mean, I really want to talk about it, you know, some of these other species too, are you seeing the same thing in those kind of areas of, you know, guys that are getting that forward facing some of our kind of, you know, ahead of the curb or catching a lot more than some of the other guys are, you know, kind of what are you seeing there on that side? - Yeah, I mean, I've been using it for two years in open water now and this year I really got, got good with it and really started to understand a lot more about fish behavior from it and it's one of those things that you, it's unbelievable once you learn how to use it as a tool for multi-species. I mean, while eyes are extremely susceptible to forward facing sonar because they oftentimes stack up outside of cover and near cover, but they aren't, they don't love to be in the thick of the cover a lot of times. So they're really easy to see typically on forward facing sonar and they kind of, once you learn the patterns that they school in and kind of the size of the fish, I can almost always tell what's a walleye and what's a bass just from what I'm looking at them if forward facing sonar. So if you're specifically targeting walleyes, it's indispensable because you can actually put a bait right on top of them and oftentimes they get so finicky in the summertime that if your bait's not literally on their head, they will not bite. And even sometimes then they can be tough. So just to pinpoint fit those walleyes and get a bait on top of them and know what's on top of them, it's indispensable. And that's same for crappies and pan fish that school, I mean, you can see them so easily with forward facing sonar and muskies and pike, it's amazing too. You know, there's a lot of guys that are anti forward facing sonar for muskies, especially fishing them in open water because it's so easy and those fish are so susceptible to being caught multiple times and getting beat up. So they're also a little easier to kill accidentally when you catch them from deep water. And there's a lot of guys that that's all they're doing now is literally going out and scoping muskies in deep water and dropping bait through it on their head. And there's a lot of guys that won't do it, they refuse to do it and they think no one else should do it. And then there's other guys who have no problem with it. So there's quite a debate on that when it comes to muskies because it does make them so much more targetable than they were before it came along. You know, now the guys are going out and catching six, seven, eight fish in a day where, you know, it was the fish of 10,000 casts and you'd be lucky if you caught one in a day. But now they're so easy to spot that it's almost too much. - Yeah, yeah, completely understand that that's, you know, growing up to that's what always heard was the fish of, you know, 10,000 casts. And I think I probably made 100,000 forever. You can hooked up with a little husky stoic. I know that, you know, abundance is a huge thing and I wanted just to call out, I'm just looking at Shell Lake here. I don't know if you can look on that. This is one that I just selected Musk in. It has, you know, luck or potential here. So I wanted to break it down even further and look at, you know, some of the data. And they have, you know, what the CPUE is, you know, catch per unit effort, which we have a little right up here about it, just talking about it. But, you know, looking over, you know, the years, this is a, you know, a timeline here of 2014 to, it looks like kind of the peak here, at least on Shell Lake was maybe 2012, 2013. And then it looks like the numbers have kind of, you know, just declined over time. Yeah, but you feel like-- And I've seen on the end there, you know, Wisconsin is there, you know, I know that, you know, there's really limited abundance of Muskie, but, you know, is that, do you feel like that's something that's a, a huge concern, is it just, you know, more of a frustration from an angling standpoint, or is it, you know, do you feel like anglers are not seeing as many Muskie up there now, or, you know, it's, it's such a rare fish. I feel like it's really kind of hard to gauge the, the population really in, in some of these lakes, especially when you have, you know, as many lakes that you do that can inhabit these Muskie, you know, from, from that standpoint, is there, you know, I don't know a ton about, you know, just kind of the Muskie fishing with others. There's a few tournaments and things like that, but, you know, outside of that are guys, you know, catching a lot of Muskie eaters, it pretty much is purely kind of a, a game fish type thing where there is such limited, you know, quantities of those in each individual lake, you know, kind of, what does that look like from, you know, you know, is it's explained to someone that's really not familiar with, you know, kind of the Muskie fishing of North? - Sure, yeah, I mean, the Muskie fishing here and in Minnesota in general is a hundred, almost a hundred percent catching release. The size limits on Muskies and most lakes are, you know, over 45 inches, some are over 50 inches. So to keep a Muskie, there's still a few guys that may keep one to mount, you know, a skin mount for a trophy mount, but a lot of guys are just doing replicas now anyway. So the actual fishing pressure on Muskies that are being kept is almost zero. There's very, very little. In fact, probably the native spearing kills more big Muskies than people actually keeping them and eating. There is a spearing season for Muskies up here in Northern Wisconsin that the tribes engage in, but they kill a few and eat them, but other than that, sports fishery is very rarely intentionally kill Muskies. However, there is a good amount of unintentional Muskie that basically just couldn't take being caught, you know, or they bled out or they were fought too long or fought a deep water. So there's some, there's definitely some fish that just die from being caught. That's definitely part of the issue up here is fishing those deep fishes. We're concerned that there's more fish that are not making it, especially after the release, you know, that are dying down there deep where the damage has been done, but we don't necessarily see it. So it's basically delayed mortality. So that's all being studied right now. And it's kind of hard to say if that's been a factor, but I think Muskie numbers in general have dropped in a lot of lakes from what I have seen in the past, but there's so many factors involved too. And we do have a good stocking program here. My best friend actually works for the fisheries department and does a lot of the netting and egg take and the raising of the fish and stocking. And that's going really well. So, you know, the fish are being put back into the lakes, but it does take a long time to grow a 50 inch Muskie too. So it's one of those fish that we were really trying to be careful with and protect because they are so vulnerable, even though the people aren't keeping them to eat necessarily, they're still vulnerable to that, just fishing pressure in general. - Yeah. And something we've noticed, you know, down here in the South, there's been a really big trend the last few years in tournaments in the summertime, whether they're day tournaments or night tournaments, going to a three-fish limit as opposed to five and, you know, trying to counteract, you know, some of these things that we know, you know, currently have an effect on these fish's health and population. But, you know, we're looking here, I just wanted to go down, I noticed another lake pin that we were looking at, Shell Lake earlier, you may have to help me with the pronunciation or this one, WAPA GASSET, is that correct? - WAPA GASSET, yup. - GASSET. So I was looking here at the catch per unit effort, it's actually increased, pretty good, it's 2014. So this is, you know, really cool. You know, if you're living kind of right here in this area, you know, this is the perfect tool if you're a Muskie angler to say, well, you know, looking up here at Shell Lake, it's, you know, the population seems to be on the decline in the last few years, whereas, you know, WAPA GASSET down here is actually, you know, up on the increase, looking at the, you know, the average length that's showing, you know, 39.1 inches here, and you go up here and it's showing 40.3. So it seems like there's still, you know, a lot of big size Muskie in there, in the population, I think there are two. So, you know, just from my perspective, that's definitely the one that I would be going to to target, you know, Muskie, if I were going out this weekend. Yeah, yeah, that's a great tool. And, you know, for fish like walleyes and crappies, they're, those two fish, especially like, not every lake has big ones in it. There's so many lakes that have, they just don't put out big fish. They put out numbers. If you want to go get a meal of walleyes, go to one of those lakes that has high numbers and not a, and is not necessarily a trophy lake. There's very few that have numbers and size of walleyes. They are out there, but they're definitely the exception. It's usually kind of one or the other. If you want to target trophy walleyes, you need to go to a lake that has those size fish in it, not just walleyes, but you need to know that there has been fish proven to be in that lake of that, you know, in that size category you're looking for, which is typically over 28 up here, I would say as a trophy walleye. So, don't bother fishing lakes if you want to catch a trophy that haven't shown that there's no proof, you know, that there is actually fish that size in it. So, this is a great tool because you know, for a fact at one point, you know, you can also see at what point they caught a fish in that trophy range. So, you know that they do exist in that fishery. I mean, that's a good starting point to go from is just knowing that they exist in that lake of that size. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's, you know, just to clarify there, too. Anytime that you see one of these purple pens on the lakes that when we say it has longer potential, that means at least one fish over the trophy threshold. And if we break it down here, you know, look, we've got bass and largemouth. So, any bass or largemouth, you know, largemouth or smallmouth, I'm sorry, over 20 inches, then that will get longer potential with walleye. It's 29 inches, you know, the musky it's 40. So, you know, there's any of these pens, you know, there is at least one, but I thought it was so interesting. We were just talking about abundance and things. And, you know, this grindstone lake here in particular has, it says an above average abundance of walleye. And you look at the catch per unit effort. It's over 200, you know, we were looking at some of the musky and it was, you know, very limited. Even here, you know, looking at Northern Pike, which is, you know, I'd say a little bit more abundant fish than a musky, would you say, but, you know, still much less abundant than most others. You see the catch per unit effort here on grindstone lake, you know, there was at its peak, they had one catch per unit effort. So, you know, a huge, huge difference there in the, you know, abundance, but, you know, looking at the walleye, there is an above average abundance, you know, according to the Department of Natural Resources, says the average length is, you know, 15 inches. So, you know, I know that's not a trophy by any means, but you know, if you have a lake that has, you know, an abundance of that, you know, 14 to 16, 17 inch walleye, you know, that can be a tremendous amount of fun going out and just catching in. You know, for, you know, catching and keeping, you know, from your perspective, what's the, you know, what's the ideal size range on like a, like a walleye, no musky and pikes aren't necessarily ones that, you know, guys are keeping to take home, but, you know, as far as walleye and things like that, go what's, you know, what's your ideal size? - Well, there are quite a few people that target pike for, for meal. I mean, pike are abundant up here. They're totally different fish than muskies. I mean, their abundance is oftentimes actually overpopulation in a lot of these lakes. So, a lot of people do eat pike and they're delicious. I think they're better than walleyes personally, if you wanted to take the Y-bones out, but a tip, I would say a typical keeper size wall I would be something from 15 to 20 inches in those upper teens. That's kind of the target for most people. You get much above 20 inches and they start to get a little bit bigger than you want to keep. I never keep any over about 21. That's about my max on walleyes. Pike, you know, 28 to 32 maybe at the biggest, you know, even a 26 fat, well, pike has quite a bit of meat on it. And then the pan fish are super popular up here to keep. And if you're catching, you know, 11, 12 inch plus perch, eight inch plus blue gills. And, you know, I'd say 11 inch plus crappies. You know, those are all nice eater size fish. And a trophy crappies, probably 14 and a half, 15 inches here. A trophy blue gills, probably a 10 inch or plus. And a trophy perch might be 13 plus and anything over those sizes I typically release to. So that's kind of the ranges for most of the fish that we get up here, I guess. I like to say, muskies are kind of off the table. And actually we do have a lot of lakes up here, especially in two counties, my county and the county to the west of me here that are overpopulated with largemouth and they're stunted. So there's literally thousands of them and they don't get much above 16 inches. And those lakes, they're encouraging people to keep the bass and they've removed the size limit. So we keep a lot of those, you know, 12 to 16 inch bass as well and eat those out of those lakes. - That's super interesting. And I had no idea that Northern Pike was, I would just always under the assumption that there was kind of a similar abundance. And one thing I wanna ask you about, I was looking at Northern Pike here too. And it really seems to be kind of a similar scenario to what I was seeing earlier with the musky is, you know, there's a lot of moving baits, a lot of, you know, kind of power type presentations. You know, is there ever really any scenarios for, you know, I guess, are these pike and musky? Are you catching them in a lot of the same areas or do they kind of, you know, set themselves up a little bit differently? I've just seen, you know, a lot of top waters, you know, especially like ploppers or choppo type things. And then, you know, janurbaits, big spinnerbaits, inline spinners too, but really it seems like anything moving. Is there ever anything moving? - Yeah. If you wanna catch small pike, you know, an eater pike, throw anything flashy that moves fast and you're gonna catch them, especially in certain lakes. I mean, there's lakes you can catch almost unlimited numbers of small pike, like 40, 50, 60 in a day, easy. Just throw in that kind of bait in shell, in the weeds or round weeds. If you wanna catch trophy pike in the summertime, they're deeper and they're much, much, much more picky about what they're eating. And I would say the majority of the big pike I've caught have either been on live bait, like big suckers or big minnows on a slip power, or they've been on some kind of jig and plastic, basically sharp shooting or slow rolling a jig and plastic over a deep weed line or a crib or something like that. Those bigger pike tend to be much more picky and not just chase down anything that moves like those smaller fish do. (clears throat) - I'm catching that that makes perfect sense. That's really interesting. - And that's probably why they got big. (laughs) - Yeah, yeah, they've gotta have, you know, a little bit of sense of caution and, you know, weariness to be able to grow to that size for sure. - Yes, but yeah, there's a lot of lakes that are completely overrun with small pike. I mean, they're a nuisance, there's so many of them. It's a complete opposite of muskies. Yeah. So I kind of switch gears a little bit, one of the things I wanted to talk about is I wanted to highlight our water clarity layer a little bit because, you know, just from kind of looking here, there seems to really kind of be a variance of, you know, a lot of really cleaner, you know, really clear lakes and then, you know, some that seem like they have a lot more color and stain to them. You know, around the grid, do you see, is it, you know, we could have just potentially had a, you know, big rain or something like that, but are, you know, is there a lot of variance in the water clarity on some of these lakes around you here? And, you know, if there is, does that impact your decision on, do I even go fish this lake that day? Or, you know, do I target maybe a different species, you know, one like, you know, large mouth and things like that tend to, you know, be easier to catch and stain water I know than some others, but kind of how does water clarity play into effect your decision making on one word ago? And then two, you know, the techniques and species you're going to try to target. Mm-hmm. Well, absolutely it does. For instance, this spring, I was fishing a really clear fishery and it was supposed to get windy that day and there was supposed to be some clouds and I was fishing walleyes, which are sunlight and water clarity sensitive. They are hard to catch and clear water, especially on column bays. And that's what it turned into and I was struggling. I mean, I could see the walleyes, literally with my eyes on these weed lines, but they would not bite anything. So I finally gave up banging up my head against the wall and moved to a dark stained lake that was nearby that had numbers of walleyes in it. And literally immediately on my first five casts I hooked a walleye and they were on fire and I just crushed them. And this is only maybe five miles from the lake I was fishing that morning where they wouldn't touch a bait. So that makes a huge difference on certain days and especially for certain species. If you're struggling on a clear lake, it's definitely worth a move if you can and if you have an option close by to get something more stained. And then some days, certain tactics work much better on clear water, like for instance, shaking a jig at suspended fish is trickier in a stained water lake because it doesn't create a lot of footprint in the water. It's not a huge vibration. You got to get really close to the fish for them to see it. But in some of these clear water lakes, they can see it for 20 feet and these come zipping over from, you can see them flying over to it from way farther than you think they could even see it from. So there's a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to stained water. But most of our lakes up here are pretty clear, but we do have some, especially some of the flowages systems that have that kind of tannic water flowing into them that get pretty dirty. And there's some of the shallow or weirier lakes that have algae blooms too in the summertime, but we have a lot of clear water up here in general. - Yeah, and I was just looking, here at Superior, we were talking about the windmill or enough that this was really cool that, you can see that the wind's blowing and almost straight into around Duluth here. And you can actually see this stained water along this bank line here where this wind's just been blowing and beating on it. You know, is that something too, you know, that you look for even? - Oh, absolutely. - It'll super clear lake, kind of like you said, you know, if you get the wind, you know, then you can, you know, potentially get some stain to that water, you can still catch those. - Yeah, and oftentimes on the Great Lakes, what we're looking for is a mud line where that dirty water meets the cold, clear water and the fish will stack up on that lake structure. I mean, then the whole west end of Lake Superior, there's virtually no structure. It's just a giant flat. And anything different can really stack up fish. And that's one of the key things that we look for when we're trolling for trout and salmon out there is a break, you know, a temperature break and a clarity break out there, wherever we can find one. And then we'll set up and troll right along the edge of that oftentimes. - Yeah. You're just looking at the C-Map contours that we have available, which, you know, through the app, we have all of Navionics cartography available there. Just looking at what's been, you know, submitted by other users. It looks like there really isn't a ton of, you know, contours and change around this. So, you know, do you see that with pretty much all species on Lake Superior that, you know, just finding even little subtle changes or differences, you know, in the contours can, you know, a lot of fish group up there. And you see places where multiple different species are grouped up on the same spot. No, that's something we see a lot in the 10th of the river, for instance, you know, if you've got a ledge or there's current blow and there's ever species of fish in the world could potentially be on that same ledge. So, you've got some. - It definitely happens on Lake Superior too. I mean, often, it's almost hard to find spots where you aren't catching multiple species on Lake Superior because they're all trout and salmon and they are all pretty much pelagic, meaning they're not relating to structure for the most part. They're typically relating to temperature, depth and bait fish, schools, whatever they're eating and chasing around. So, wherever the food is and the right temperature is and the right depth, that's where they're gonna be. And it oftentimes has almost nothing to do with the bottom at all when it comes to trout and salmon because they really don't. Now, lake trout will relate to structure. They will key on rock, you know, rock reefs and stuff like that. And that's typically where we vertical jig those fish. And there's different subspecies of lake trout that are more related to the bottom. Certain subspecies of lake trout are almost 100% rock and bottom related and they very rarely suspend, but other subspecies are much more pelagic and open water fish. So, it just depends on the subspecies of lake trout and kind of what their habits are. But for the most part, most of the fish we chase in Lake Superior are more open water type fish, chasing bait schools, similar to your shad down self, you know, those bass that are fish that are in open water. They're not really relating to structure necessarily. Now, you get in some of the Bayes on Lake Superior and they fish much more like an inland lake where you're fishing pike and bass and walleyes on weed beds and structure and that type of thing. And there's really no difference. - Yeah, it's something you kind of mentioned, salmon and I guess in Lake Superior, there's some steelhead. - Mm-hmm. - As well. - Yep. - Almost, yep. You know, coming into kind of September, October timeframe is when, you know, some of those species especially run. You know, I know on the Lake Michigan side, going east, like the Pier Marquette Rivers, one that a lot of those fish will run in, is there anywhere kind of here off of, you know, Superior or even on, you know, this side of Lake Michigan too, where you see, is that something that you're fishing for? Some in, you know, September, October and kind of what are some of the rivers that, you know, you'd recommend anglers looking for when, you know, they start that migration. I know they can travel several miles, you know, up to-- - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - You know, for instance, like-- - Yeah, they can travel. - Yeah, so Green Bay has a few rivers that get fish in them. I don't fish that Lake Michigan tributaries that much. I've got buddies that do all the time. I fish more of the Lake Superior tributaries for the most part. So I'm fishing like the Burrill River and some of the North Shore rivers on Lake Superior. There's a lot of options up there, especially if you get rain and a runoff in the fall. But, you know, Lake Michigan has probably more options and bigger fish when it comes to fishing those river run fish. And also there's a pretty good staging bite in front of most of those river mousins and the harbors and stuff where those fish are not necessarily in the river yet, but you can target them trolling on the outside of the river mousins, both on Lake Superior and Lake Michigan, as they start to stage to run up those rivers. - Yeah, it's always been one of the most fascinating, kind of, in a Humminon, if you will, that happens up there is the way that those fish will, you know, travel and things like that. And again, it's just, you know, testament to the, you know, the-- just the wealth of water bodies and different species of fish that you guys have up that way to target. It's amazing. - It's almost endless. (laughs) - Absolutely. There was a, I wanted to pull up, this is something you and I talked about before with the bottom hardness. Now we're gonna find, see. There's a place in particular looking just kind of showcase this. - Yeah, while you're looking for that, I can kind of go over what I know about it. So with the sea maps in Omnia, that one of the options is bottom hardness. As you can see here, like on the Chippewa Flowage, if that's mapped, one of the best things that you can do before you go to a lake is mark some bottom transitions, especially in deeper water. You can see what is hard bottom. It's more that hard orange or hard red. And a soft bottom is gonna be that lighter yellow and kind of, the lighter it is, the softer, the darker it is, the harder the bottom. So if you can find one of those transition areas, especially in the basin where you've got like a little hard bottom refronting through, or you can check and see if a bottom rise on the map is actually hard bottom like rock and gravel, or if it's sand, it can also help you find weed beds. You look for that softer bottom shoreline versus the hard bottom shoreline. And it's one of those things you could never see before without actually going to the lake and mapping it yourself. But now with the sea maps, you can see exactly what that bottom looks like before you even get there. And that's just a huge, huge bonus for pre-scouting the lake. And I use it all the time when I'm looking at a new lake. - Yeah, I think we've, I know you've done a few really, really great videos talking about this bottom hardness specifically. So, if anyone wants to learn more and dive into that a little bit deeper, check out some of the content of the Kale's critic 'cause it's really fascinating. And I think the fascinating thing too, is kind of what you mentioned is, this has really been the first time ever that you've actually been able to kind of look at an entire lake and actually see, these are the areas that have the harder bottom versus the softer bottom, your clays, mudds, things like that. And just lay on at this particular area, here this, it's almost kind of like a little saddle that connects these two pieces of land here, but you've got really good hard bottom out there here, even coming into some of these contours before it drops off to a lighter, softer bottom here kind of on both sides. So this whole area seems like it would be a really, really good one to target. And you know, you've-- - Yeah, in the spring, if you're looking for small mouth on rock, that's probably a great area. And if you look to that basin to the right, you'll see that there's almost a spine of hard bottom that runs directly across it, like a bunch of little dots there. Go down a little bit. Right there to see those little hard bottom dots going across that lighter basin, that could be some kind of a rock spined running across mud and fish will travel that like a highway. And they'll use that hard bottom to kind of just use it as a road almost as it goes across that softer bottom. So definitely one of those things you would never know about 'cause it doesn't show much of your eyes in the bottom at all, just you wouldn't see it, but now it's there and you can check it and see if the fish are on it. - Yeah, and I think inversely is, you can go and target these areas that have a lot of hard bottom. And I think too, you can see areas that have a tremendous amount of soft bottom with a few hard places mixed in and you all feel like that could be, you have something that I try to do a lot of times is just target those areas that nobody else is really fishing. Maybe it's just a small area within a small hard bottom area within a huge flat of mud or clay or something on a softer bottom that the fish could really congregate in that area and could hold a lot of fish on some of those key spots. - Yep, for sure. And the other thing I love about the C maps is even without the bottom hardness, the contours you can count on them because about has actually mapped them. So these contours are 100% correct every time I've ever checked them. Every other mapping tool I've ever used has problems. Their data points are so far apart that they miss too much and a lot of times it looked nothing like it shows on the map. But these maps are almost dead on, accurate every single time I've ever checked them. And I've checked them against a lot of other maps and found stuff on these C maps that I would never see on anything else. 100% like not doesn't exist until you actually go there and check it and then find it there. In the only way I've found some of these spots that I've caught a lot of fish on is by using these C maps to find little tiny structures that nobody else has mapped. Yeah, exactly. Just looking here at some of these on the contour side, which for the audience that's not familiar with C map is it's through Navionics. And this is actual data that has been sent in by real users just like with our fishing reports and things like that. All this C map stuff has actually been scanned by the same with the bottom hardness as well. So you know exactly, 'cause there's been a boat that has went over every single bit of this and recorded all this information. So, you know, it really is as accurate as you can get. You know, and I think, look to get your thoughts on this kill, but you know, just cartography in general, you know, I feel like over time, you know, we as anglers know how much lakes will change over the course of a decade, 15, 20 years. So, you know, being able to have this more in recent mapping too, you know, I think that maybe has, you know, a bigger effect on it than a lot of people realize is, you know, these lakes are slowly changing, you know, over time and, you know, having that more updated mapping and things that, you know, not only one show some things that the other ones never shown before, but you know, if it being, you know, some newer data and information, you know, there's things that could have changed. You know, you have a, you know, we know what, you know, weather can do, you know, from tornadoes to which you guys don't really have hurricanes up there, but you know, there's a variety of different weather patterns and things that can happen that can, you know, change that, the complexion and the makeup of lakes. So, it's really cool to be able to see all this information. And like you said, you all feel like it's the most accurate information that's out there by far. So. - Yeah, definitely. - One of the things too, we'll touch on here just a little bit is the vegetation too, which is another one. Like, so this is, you know, pretty widespread across. And I think that's something to mention too, Caleb, is, you know, I know what Wisconsin, especially, there is a tremendous amount of different types of grass. You know, down here in the South, we really see hydrilla. You see a little bit of coontail grass. Then once you get down into, you know, like Florida and some of those places, you start seeing some more stuff like reeds, decimid grass, things like that. But, you know, what are really the predominant, you know, types of vegetation up there? And are there any specifically that you're looking for, for certain species? - Oh man, we have so much diversity when it comes to vegetation up here. I mean, there's green cabbage, there's red cabbage, there's coontail, we have a lot of milfoil up here. Now that's kind of an invasive that's taken over a lot of areas. There is chara, which is like a deep water, kind of real slimy type of grass that grows on the bottom and deeper water. In shallow, we've got borushes, we've got bigger lily pads and then we've got what we call like silver dollar pads or smaller pads. We've got wild rice beds that hold fish at certain times of the year. We've got just, there's just so many different types of vegetation, but typically the vegetation that holds the most fish is gonna be like your nice green cabbage that's scattered, you know, not super thick, but scattered and it's got holes in it, but it's nice and tall and green. That's typically the best weeds for just about any species of fish. Now you can't tell the species of weed, you know, from these maps, but at least you can tell the general area where weeds have been mapped, so you have a place to start. The other thing you gotta keep in mind with the vegetation maps is a lot of these places change from year to year, like pretty unbelievably. Like one year, a whole point will be covered in weeds so thick you can't fish them. The next year, they can be gone. So, you know, you kind of have to take these maps with a little bit of grain of salt because they do change more than the bottom changes. So if it's a two year old or three year old map, it might not be dead on, but at least it's gonna get you in the vicinity of an area that hand-girl good weeds on it. - Yeah, absolutely, and that's a really good thing to call out is, you know, that grass can change. You don't even change this throughout the year, you know, it's hard to get where it's growing, it's like that. So it's, you know, definitely something to utilize as a reference point. And one of the things that I personally love to do too is actually kind of using a couple of these in conjunction. So, you know, when you're, you know, looking at vegetation, you know, I'm always looking to try to find those little anomalies within, you know, that you look at an area like this that's, you know, showing it's covered in grass, but if I actually flip over to the bottom hardness, you know, I can see there's, you know, a lot more harder bottom kind of in just this section here, which you can kind of see these two little, or three little pumps that stick up there, but, you know, you can lay it over with that vegetation again quickly and see the, you know, hey, out of all this vegetation that's across through here, you know, really the harder bottom stuff is just in this section right here. So, you know, I, I honestly would probably be surprised to get that first, you know, I'm really keen to break that down. So that's, you know, one of the things I like to try to do with that, you know, vegetation too, is use it in conjunction with, you know, some of the, like the bottom hardness especially to really kind of break down. If you have a huge area like that that has a lot of grass. - Absolutely, yeah. And that's just confirmation. You know, you see the holes in the grass, you can assume that that's probably hard bottom, but then you turn on the bottom hardness map and you can confirm that yes, indeed it is a rocker gravel spot. And you can know all that before you ever get there, which is pretty valuable. - Well, listen, Caleb, I know we've talked about a lot of different stuff here, you know, uncovered. A lot of the map layers and features, you know, here with Omnia Pro, especially because they're, they're anything else that you want to touch on, Caleb, but want to talk about before, you know, God, but sort of love to, love to have another conversation here in a few months about some, some ice fishing. - Yeah, that'll be fun. - Yeah, this stuff comes into play even more in ice fishing because you're so less mobile. So when you want to find the spot on the spot and you don't want to drill 500 holes, this mapping is super valuable because it'll put you there without having to drill a ton of holes and cover tons of water through the ice, which is a lot more difficult than just running your boat over and checking it. So a lot of these features are even more valuable for ice anglers, I would say. So that'll be fun when we can start talking, talking about ice fishing. So, but yeah, as far as just like, I've tried a lot of mapping apps. I've tried just about all of them, honestly. And this is the one I keep going back to just because of all the data that you can gather from one app. You just, you can find this, some of this data other places, but you have to pull some from here and pull some from there and then try and piece something together. Whereas with Omnia, it's just all there. In one app, just turn on whatever layer you want and you can contrast and compare, kind of like you did with the hard bottom and weeds and you don't have to jump around on 10 different, you know, tabs in your browser to try and piece something together. So in my opinion, having it all in one place alone is a huge bonus. And then you add on the fact that you can scout those lakes to have the trophy potential now, as well as look at those DNR surveys. Again, you can get that data if you want from the DNR, but that's a huge, huge pain. And you have to research it all and you have to dig it up and it's all just right there. So it's just the amount of data you can get on one app is unsurpassed in my opinion. And that's why it makes it so, that's why I keep going back to it because I know I can find it all there. I don't have to look and waste a bunch of time. - Exactly. And that's what, you know, we've always strived to do, you know, want to provide all the information that, you know, an angler could want, whether it's, you know, someone like yourself, a Wisconsin that's a multi-species angler or that, you know, someone like myself, you know, like in Taty and that's, you know, fishing some Highland reservoirs and, you know, some, the TVA, things like that. You know, it really is, you know, we strive to have all the information that we possibly can on here. And, you know, we'd love to hear in the comments, you know, if there's anything, you know, additionally, did you guys would like to see or, you know, there's some of these lakes that you guys had fished before that we've touched on today. I know we touched on a few, you know, superior, you know, some of the ones there around Spooner. Before we go, I had one more question for you, Caleb. If, you know, just looking at all the conditions and things that we've looked at today, you know, if you had to pick one species and one lake to go to this weekend, you know, out of everything that we've looked at here, you know, where are you thinking you'd go? - Oh, man, that's a tough one. Honestly, I can't necessarily name a specific lake, but looking at the weather, looks like we're gonna have some off and on, you know, kind of rain showers and storms coming through, a little bit of wind this weekend, it looks like. I mean, it'd be a great weekend to target walleyes, like in one of the shallow reservoirs or darker water fisheries up shallow, because I think with a little bit of cool down and some rain and some wind, those fish are gonna push up shallow and start feeding in the edges of the weeds again. So, you know, even on those deeper reefs, the walleyes are gonna bite in those conditions. So it'd be a good weekend to target walleyes, honestly. And I think some of those fish are gonna start start feeding a little bit shallower in those cloudier windier conditions. So if your favorite lake, you got a good weed line bite, you know, that's probably gonna be a good time to get out there and fish that for probably multiple species, you know, just throw swim baits along those weed edges and have fun. - Absolutely, that sounds like a lot of fun. Listen, again, Kale Bayard, I really appreciate you coming on and talking through some of the stuff with us and looking forward to having another conversation with you, get into some more eye stuff, 'cause that's something else too. I can learn a tremendous amount from you on that. But, you see, if you guys like what you watched here, like subscribe to our Omnia channel, watch some more episodes of the Omnia Report. And like I said, you know, Kale will have your YouTube and everything listed below. So you wanna go check out some more stuff that Kale has done. See, it's probably the most knowledgeable, you know, multi-species angle that I know. And he's got a lot of really good cool content out there. So go and check him out too. And for all of us here at Omnia Fishing, well thank you guys for tuning in and we'll see you guys next time. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)